Radiologists Assistants: More Than Just Techs!

Welcome to A Couple of RAD Tech's podcast where we bring you an inside look at the world of radiology from the unique perspective of a married couple of radiologic technologists.

Together, we have over 30 years of experience in the field and are here to demystify the science of medical imaging.

Radiology is the unsung hero of the medical field, providing doctors with crucial images and information that help diagnose and treat illnesses.

Join us as we explore the latest techniques, technologies and innovations in radiology and discovery the vital role we play in the healthcare industry.

So come along for the ride as we share our passion for radiology as a married couple.

We are talking to another radiologic professional today.

We have Marceline Forbus.

Marceline is a radiology assistant and she's going to tell us all about what Ra's do or if some of you may know, RPAs, but she's going to talk about this.

So welcome, Marceline, to our podcast.

We are so excited to have you.

Thank you.

I'm very excited to be on.

Yeah, so tell us about these ACRO acronyms because I was confused as to which one should I call you?

And you broke it down really nicely.

So I know probably others are like me.

Is it RA or ra?

Rpa?

You know, what is it?

Please inform us.

So it is very confusing and you're not alone.

As a matter of fact, there's a lot of people that go into our industry that still are a little bit confused.

So there is Radiology Practitioners Assistant, which is rpa, and then you have your registered radiologist assistant.

The main difference is the RPA gets their credentialing through and certification through the cbrpa, which is a certifying board of radiology practitioner assistants.

Then you have the rra, which is through the arp.

Okay, really, it really depends on kind of where you go through your education.

And to keep any of the confusion down, we all took on the common name of Radiologist Assistant.

Regardless of where we got our certification from, there currently are not any RPA programs.

All programs are rra, but you can still have a dual certification through the CBRPA and the A.

So there is still that avenue and that pathway.

It's just two different governing bodies with the same like minds and just kind of having different avenues in which, you know, those of us who had our education prior and those of us who have our education now, that really clears it up.

But yeah, yeah, so we're, we're the same.

I mean, the scope of the practice, you know, for the most part is identical.

Everything's really pretty much the same and everybody's happy.

We've coexisted really well together.

Our boards work really well together.

So that that merging really helped out a lot in our profession.

It does.

That would simplify so much because as technologists, many technologists and students are really interested in how to become ra or maybe down the line, how to do it.

And I want us to talk about that.

So we're going to be asking you maybe for some tips on how can students and technologists as well prepare themselves now to maybe go in that direction.

As a student, sometimes you don't know what you want to do, but being fully informed.

And that's what I want this podcast to do, not only inform technologists, but patients as well, because you affect patients.

You're going to tell us, what do RAs do?

Let's do that.

And then you talked about the education in the last comment you just made.

I want to talk about too.

What are some of the education requirements so people know what things are RAs responsible for?

What duties do they have in the radiology field?

So it's going to vary depending on the group that you're with.

And actually it's going to vary even from radiologist to radiologist.

I have some of them that love doing their own procedures and so I do all the pre workup and all the post care and then I kind of do the in between stuff while they do the procedure.

I put on gloves and I assist them.

The other is you have others who kind of give you these delegated tasks or kind of let you work your own flow.

So everybody's even different within the same group that you're working for.

That's what I love.

It's still very consistent, but it's ever changing.

So your skillset is never consistent.

Instantly the same.

And that's where I like the uniqueness to it.

It's kind of like working the floor and X ray.

You know, there's some days you're doing surgery, some days you're doing.

You know, we used to do ct.

I don't know if now they make you do all those different certifications, but that's what I love about it.

There's that variety that's in there.

So some of the advice that I have for people that could possibly want to go this route is really home into as you're looking at imaging, if you're wanting to know more.

I think wanting to know the Science behind the images that you're taking, how you can better treat your patients.

For me, it was a connection to my patients.

I wanted that better connection, so that was really what drove me.

The other thing is, you'll notice that radiologists tend to look to you more in terms of treating patients and they trust you.

That's always a good sign.

Yeah, it is.

And then if you're starting out your career, if you're an X ray student who's still trying to build their confidence, lean on your radiologist a lot, lean on your technologist a lot.

Gain as much experience as you can.

I think getting in there and doing as much as you can is really going to benefit you, not only as you further your degree as an rt, but it's going to advance you no matter what way you go.

If you choose that RA is not your pathway, if you're a good hard worker and you've put in the time and effort, it will be paid back to you.

I totally agree with you on that because I remember coming out of school and I probably worked for about a year, my first job, and I remember one of our senior techs, she was like the best X ray supervisor and technologist, this lady was.

I just wonder why she didn't go to school, medical school to be a radiologist.

That's how good she was.

And the patients loved her and the radiologist wanted her to become what this new direction was going for the RA program.

And she was, didn't have the education and she had a lot going on.

She was a caregiver and she was like, I don't know if I could devote going back to school to get my master's, that would be a lot of work.

And the radiologists were just so behind her.

And we'll support you.

And all the technologists are like, yeah, you can do it, you can do it.

But I always wondered where this was going to go because.

Because it really intrigued me because that particular hospital, the radiologists were very involved with the technologists.

They really took pride.

It was an older group.

You know, this is 20 something years ago.

So this is an older group of radiologists.

They really were hands on with their technologists.

They were very particular about their images, how they did their fluoro, how they did their, you know, different other procedures.

So they, they wanted to train those technologists to do it.

So I can only imagine the experience that you get working so closely with radiologists as a ra.

Now, I want to talk about the education part because that's one the biggest Things that people ask, like, can I go online?

Can I?

Do I have to do it in person?

Is it a bachelor's degree requirement?

Is it a master's?

What?

How could you enlighten us on the education portion?

So a lot of them are hybrid, meaning you do a lot of your coursework online, you'll submit it, you'll do some of your simple quizzes, things like that online.

And then every six to eight weeks, at least when I went through the program, and you're talking 17 years ago, but roughly about the same, they'll go on campus at least twice a semester, I believe, for the rr.

And so you'll go on campus and you get to meet your cohort and hear how you guys are doing things.

Prior to getting in, you have to have a bachelor's.

So I definitely recommend people who are going through the RT program.

If you think that this is an avenue that you want to hit and you're just now graduating the RT program, you're already set.

Just keep going to, you know, keep going through the school because you already got that momentum.

And one thing that I always tell people is, I don't know how you want to edit this, because it's going to be horrible to say.

I have said it on our podcast before.

I do not like education.

I do not like going to school.

I have a very hard time just grasping educational.

I don't think that sounds horrible.

I think that's just being honest because not won't say most.

A good number of people feel the same way, and it's not because they're not smart.

It's, you know, educate to continue your education.

I love how you said, while you're in the momentum, keep it going.

Because when you stop and as you age and life just starts to happen, it is very hard to go back when you want to think prices go up.

I remember when I went to school, things were a lot cheaper than they are now.

You know, it was.

Certain requirements were different, certain education.

I already had all the prereqs and all the other things, so now those things are too old now.

So I would have to take all of those things back again, you know, so it's.

It's very realistic what you're saying.

You know, I don't.

I don't think it sounds bad, personally.

I think a lot of people would agree with you on that as well.

It was just saying to myself, this is what I want to do, and I'm going to have to get through that.

But it was very much like, what you were talking about before, My radiologists were actually the ones who had kept asking me to go and to do it.

And I kept saying, no, no, no, no, no.

But I really loved seeing how they got to be with patients and communicating with patients, and I could do the same thing, too.

And I thought, okay, if they see in me this aspect of taking care of patients and being able to assist them, why do I not see it in me?

Wow.

You know, and so we get a lot of people that tell us, you should do really good at this.

And a lot of times we just dismiss it as a compliment, but sometimes maybe it really is what you're going to be good at.

So whenever I went through the program, and I think for me, the reason why this education was so much different is it is so based on clinical.

Oh, wow.

And that's where I do good.

So for me, going through this program, way simpler than the RT program in certain aspects.

I could grasp it easier.

But I think a lot of it, too, comes from your RT background.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, most definitely.

I just.

I couldn't see it without it.

I really couldn't.

Because, I mean, especially what you saying, most of it is clinical.

I mean, I remember I took an MRI job.

It was.

And doing MRI in the hospital was totally different from working to working at an orthopedic outpatient center doing MRI on a 0.25 Tesla.

Now, imagine that being your first job outside the hospital, and you probably only been doing MRI for a year.

And I tell this story because of what you're saying.

It just brought it to my mind because when I went to this place, the technologist that was there was not willing to be helpful and train me, help me to figure out how to do fingers and thumbs on a 0.25 and still make them look like a 1.5.

So all of the stuff that I learned, and there was no MRI school back then, so I literally read the MRI practice book, took Bill Faulkner's class.

You know, that's what was out at that time.

There was really nothing else.

Took his physics class, and I had to figure out how to manipulate those parameters to get these images to look right.

But also comes in that clinical part.

You're talking about how to position things.

Things.

Because you can know all the book stuff, but if you don't know the clinical part of it.

And I was invited by two of the radiologists in that group to come to sit with them for a few weeks, and they were going to teach me everything they knew.

And I'm going to tell you first.

I was like, oh, no.

You know, and they were like, no, come on.

And I did.

And that was the best training I have ever received in my life.

And when I think back to my radiology career, anytime I worked closely with a radiologist, my understanding of things just, it stuck with me.

My quality of work was so much better.

I was way more, more confident.

I mean, so for you to say this program is built around more clinical stuff that, I mean, I don't know, that's exciting.

That's really exciting.

It is, it's a lot of fun.

And I think you brought up a really good point there.

And nothing against the technologists that didn't take the time to train you, but one thing that I always tell people, no matter who they are, whether a radiologist, whoever they are, you are only as good as the person that you're teaching.

And what that means is, is if you're not putting the time and effort to teach people around you, one, you're not going to grow yourself, and two, they're byproduct of.

So if you're not taking the time to teach them what you know, then you're really not taking the time to display who you are as a person.

So true.

So true.

I agree.

That was a great way to put it.

So true.

So true.

I mean, I just, I love this conversation because you're giving people a, you're helping me.

I, I, I just have not been able to really understand everything they do.

And I want to go a little deeper because you talked about helping the doctors and taking over some of the things so they can do other things.

Some people I've talked to, other technologists think, well, it's, you're just getting them assigned PA and you're doing that for the doctors.

But no listening to you.

It's way more than that, you guys.

So if you're a technologist listening or watching this podcast, I want you to pay attention to this next portion.

Especially careful in the patients as well.

So if you're getting a procedure and maybe a biopsy, you know, maybe, you know, a breast biopsy or a CT lung biopsy, a kidney biopsy, anything, you may have a RA there as well with a radiologist or doing these things.

So can you tell us, give us maybe three of the top exams that you could think of that you guys are responsible for, that people may not know, People, patients and technologists may not know that you guys actually do and are entrusted with.

I think one of the most important things that you Brought up is.

And actually, we talk about this a lot.

Every time I introduce myself to a patient, I tell them, I'm Marceline.

I've been a radiology technologist for 23 years.

I've been a radiologist assistant for roughly 17.

You know, this is kind of where I've been at my whole career.

And, you know, I'm working with X, Y and Z radiologist today.

If you would feel comfortable with him doing the examination, you're more than happy to ask.

My feelings get hurt, so I always let my patients know who I am and what I'm doing.

I also let them know who my doctor is because I think it's really important because that's who their report's going to come from.

A lot of patients get really upset that they get a bill from somebody they've never heard of.

So it's always good to throw that in there.

The other thing is, a lot of what we do is fluoroscopy work.

We'll do a lot of modified barium swallows, upper GIs, barium enemas, enemas, sinus, fistula tract.

A lot of RAs will do.

You know, PICC lines.

Everywhere is a little bit different.

Paras, thoras, some of them will do, you know, metaport placements or assisting with the metaport placements.

You know, so it really just varies on one, how does the hospital credential you?

Okay.

And number two, how does the state credential you?

Then you have your ASRT scope of practice.

So you've kind of got three things that you have to follow.

ASRT scope of practice is going to lay the foundation work next is your state.

State, you absolutely have to follow whatever is in line with your state.

And then lastly, no matter what either of those two say, it comes down to what the hospital allows you to do.

So if the state says that I can go in and do thoracentesis, but the hospital says, no, you cannot, then I cannot.

And so that's really important for individuals to understand as they go through the credentialing process.

And for some people who work at multiple places, it may be different at each place.

And so it's just understanding those three factors on how you can practice.

Wow.

Now, that.

That was a lot, you guys.

I mean, so because people don't understand that you and I were talking about this earlier, people just think X ray is bones, but within modal or CT or MRI is this.

Or nuclear medicine is this.

But within those modalities, you have sub modalities.

I like to say you Know, within X ray, you have surgery, you have fluoroscopy, you.

There's so many, so many things just under diagnostic X ray that are done.

And not everyone knows how to do that does diagnostic X ray.

So, you know, certain things require certification, experience.

You know, some things as an X ray tech, I've never done.

And when it comes to Mr.

There are certain things, not everyone can do everything under that umbrella.

So you just mentioned how RA is another stepping stone.

And it reminds me almost of a PA under the umbrella of the doctor.

How many times have we gone to the doctor and the PA talks to us, or the nurse practitioner talks to us, introduces themselves the same as you did.

And like you said, it takes more education.

While you're on that track, continue going.

What has been the most rewarding part of your 17 year career as a RA, my patience.

I hold that, that is the most sacred thing to me.

Patients, each and every single one of them.

Even if I'm running late for an exam, you know, whenever I go in and I tell my patients that have been waiting, I tell them, I'm so sorry, you know, I dedicated my time to that patient, but you are going to get that same quality of care.

And they come in angry and man, they leave.

Yeah.

And when I can turn a patient around, as a matter of fact, the hospital will send me.

Even for patients that we're not involved with, I'll go up and speak to them.

Whenever we're having a patient who's disgruntled because I can get on that level with the patient, I just.

So for me, it doesn't matter which area you put me in or how you work me, as long as I've got that patient interaction, I'll figure out.

Well, that seems like your personality anyway.

You are an advocate for the profession.

We talked earlier, we connected early and we, I think we just talked, talked and talked.

We're supposed to be talking about the podcast and we just were chit chatting and talking.

And your passion for radiology is just, you know, amazing and it's inspiring.

And you, you, you're just, you're just that kind of caring kind of person.

Anyway, I think just from talking to you, the few times I've talked to you, so I wouldn't be surprised that the hospital calls you to come and, you know, take care of those kind of people because you, you help so many others to advocate for the profession and to advocate in their state, even if it doesn't affect you.

From the stories you, you told me what you've been do in your state and help other RAs to advocate for themselves and to be able to practice and be recognized.

So you guys, if you are, if you have not known, she is a podcast host as well.

So tell us about your podcast and some of the things that you guys talk about over there.

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Now let's get back to our regularly scheduled program.

So we started Collaboration RA roughly roughly a year ago, actually coming up on A year.

So we started that.

We were sitting, me and Reese were sitting in the reading room with some of our radiologists and something had been said that was not very kind about the RA profession.

You know, it happens, unfortunately, with our profession more than I would like it to.

And so I think I finally just stood up and I said, I've had enough.

You know, I we sit back silently and we let this continue to happen.

And it's exhausting to hear these things about you when you work so hard and people who don't know you come out and say those things and have never worked with your profession.

So I just said, you know what, it's time for people to know who we are.

And I said, I'm going to start a podcast.

And Reese looked at me and goes, I'm in.

And then the radiologist is like, do it.

And I'm like, no, that was just a joke.

And Reese, he wouldn't let it go.

He's like, no, we're going to do it.

So whenever we first started the podcast out, I think I was Really a little bit nervous because our culture as ras has always been to be quiet.

But just like what you've said, nobody knows who we are.

We're the third largest medical profession in the nation, imaging.

And many people don't know, you know, we're still being called technicians, being called nurses, doctors, but.

And now we have all of these subgroups.

And I just, I love your collaboration, ra and what you guys are about, because even other technologists don't know what RAs do.

And we should know what each other do and the importance of each other because we all, all come back together, right?

Well, I think, I think we've always been peacekeepers, and that's okay.

We're still being peacekeepers.

We're not causing any commotion or any waves, but it's okay to let people know who you are and what you do.

And I think us in radiology, as professionals, we tend to want to safeguard what we have.

So we don't, we don't talk about it a whole lot.

And especially as RAs, because our positions have always been a little bit different and so it practices differently.

And so you just don't want to say anything.

It's just easier to say, well, I'm good at my job, you know, I wish you luck as you go, you know, throughout your career path.

But we're changing that culture and it is changing.

And it's been amazing because we all.

Work together, just like the radiologist is.

When I was doing X ray as a student, I worked closely with the radiologist in those fluoro cases, you know, and it was important for me to know each one of those radiologists, like, and they needed to know me.

Like, Dr.

Green wanted his stuff set up this way.

And you knew he didn't even have to say anything to you just knew what to hand him.

You knew what pictures he wanted, you knew he liked gas.

This one didn't like, I mean, like air.

This one didn't like air, this one liked a little bit air.

You had to know your radiologist.

So the technologists and radiologists, so if you guys are doing those RAs are doing those procedures, it's important that the technologists know they're working with the RA, not with Dr.

Green this day.

So you're going to do the things Dr.

Green wants, but you still have your way of doing things, your scope of practice that you do them in, and we still have to work together.

So I think it's important for us to even know what each other, you know, do in the field of radiology.

And I Appreciate this podcast.

And I know you appreciate your podcast as well, because we're able to collaborate and put the word out of what imaging is, that it's not just taking a picture of a bone, not just claustrophobic people in an MRI scan or, you know, there are, you know, really, that's.

That's what most people.

The scope of most people is.

Or that hot stuff that goes through your CAT scan.

Really.

Or ultrasound.

Just looking at a baby ultrasound does so many things.

And I just hope we can really come together and help people, not just other patients or the medical field or radiologic professionals as well.

Well.

But really help them to see that we do have a place.

And actually radiology touches, I think almost every.

Almost every medical field, dentistry, chiropractic, everything you find radiology and everything.

Yeah, even veterinary everything.

I mean, you can't really do many medical procedures without someone has a blockage, they gotta go to imaging somewhere.

We're intertwined in everything.

So we should allow people to know that our credentials is for a reason and who we are is for a reason.

And each state is different.

Like you said, my state is not a licensure state.

I actually just did a post on, you know when people say, you know, an X ray tech did my X ray.

Are you sure it was an X ray tech?

A registered technologist.

Are you sure?

And I'll hit on that.

Yeah, we have to have you back to talk about that.

Because I.

That's like a whole nother conversation.

But I do want to have like a panel back and we discuss that.

Because people assume.

And I had several people, people on the post come and say, well, I'm not sure.

I thought they were.

And not in my state.

A lot of places.

I used to do radiation safety training, so we'll definitely have to talk about that.

But I want people to know what an RA is and what you do and that patients know that think this is so important too, not only for other technologists and for us to collaborate together and make people more aware, but for the patients to know.

So that way they are saying, oh, this was a RA who helped me this time.

This was a nuclear medicine tech, this was the MRI tech.

They actually know the different things that we do versus, oh, I thought you were the doctor.

I thought you were the nurse.

You know, this is what.

Who.

Who helped me today.

And, you know, we become more aware to others, not just.

And inside our profession as well.

Because I agree with you.

I don't think I know.

I just learned a whole bunch about ras Today, thanks to you being a guest on the podcast.

Yes.

And I'd love to come on and help out.

You know, I really support your podcast.

I think what you're doing is amazing.

And I think just reaching within our own profession and finding those people having those conversations.

I mean, I think the way that I look at it is this is our opportunity.

Our patients, like you were saying, they don't know any better.

They don't.

And they're going to assume the care that they get is good care.

It may be from somebody who's nice, but it doesn't mean that it was actually good care.

And when I say good care, they need that diagnosis just as much as they need that bedside manner.

And the right person needs to be taking those images to make sure that radiology gives the correct diagnosis.

So when I advocate, I'm doing it because I love my job, because I love my patients.

And we can definitely see that.

If you guys have not listened to collaboration, Ra, you're going to find the link and all of Marceline's links inside of the description, so be sure to go there and check it out.

Marceline, thank you so much for taking the time out of your busy schedule, you guys.

You're going to be able to look at her LinkedIn and find out all about her and go support her podcast as she supported mine as well by being a guest and sharing all of her notes, college and helping us to understand more about the radiology profession and the different modalities.

So if you are a technologist coming into the field, if you're already in the field as a technologist, we want you to stay.

That is the purpose of us also making this field more aware because we need everyone to stay in the field.

We want everyone to enjoy what they do and also everyone to feel valued because we are such a valuable part of the imaging, imaging world and radiology world.

So look at other opportunities for you to advance within the field and scope of radiology because there are so many modalities and sub modalities that you can go in and some you just may not know.

So that's why it's good for us to collaborate like this, because we can share what we know and expand our knowledge and help others to see.

You can stay right in your field that you've invested all of this time in and just grow, grow and grow and reach more people.

The opportunities are limitless in radiology and.

The RAs are doing great.

I know that a lot of people will hear, you know that maybe they're not thriving.

Right.

There are several job opportunities open.

It's an excellent time to consider the educational avenue of the ra.

So I really encourage anybody who has any questions they can reach out to myself, they can reach out to Reese.

You can reach out to Dave Hardwick, who's the president of the srpe.

You can reach out to Terry Lashardi, who is the CBRPA president.

Any of those are more than happy to help out.

We love our fish field.

If you know an ra, they will be more than happy to get you pointed in the right direction.

I think you mentioned how many jobs have opened up just in the past.

And it may not sound like a lot to people unless they've been RAs, but right now there's about 20 something that are open nationally, which is a huge deal for us, especially because we are such a quiet profession.

And those numbers are only going to continue to go up as our radiologists need help.

And I think as more people are learning about us.

So right now our students.

And I'm sure there's more jobs than that, a lot of times when you graduate from school, your places keep you on.

So you're not even looking for a job.

Oh, wow.

So, yeah, a lot of RAs are already employed.

So it's just a matter of now trying to find ras who, you know, are looking for maybe a new opportunity.

And then of course, that spot has to be filled.

So I encourage anyone who's considering the industry.

Now is a really good time.

Yeah, I mean, I would tell you that is a huge number.

And I guess because I've been in a field since they started Even talking about RAs, that's a huge number because I remember when there was like one job or two job where you had to know the radiologist, the group, you know, I remember if you didn't know the group of radiologists, you probably weren't going to, you know.

So that's why I kind of was trickling.

And to hear you, it was a big number to me.

So anybody.

It's a huge number to us.

When you said it, I was like, wow, that is excellent.

It's beautiful.

Because I remember when they started talking about and I said, this sounds like an amazing idea because.

And there were no radiologists available because the amount of patients that we had on a fluoros schedule, that we had on a biopsy schedule that we had on the.

All the other stuff that was going on in X ray, we had all kind of other procedures going on.

And you only had two or three radiologists and they were about to retire.

And, you know, you.

It's crazy.

We're in the same industry right now.

Yeah, exactly.

What you were explaining in.

In that year is where we are.

You know, history has kind of taken us back that pathway since COVID and the numbers and people retiring.

And you're not only seeing it in X X ray, but you're definitely seeing it in the radiologist industry as well, too.

You know, whatever happens to them.

And that's the thing.

We're a couple, right.

We can't do their, you know, we can't do our job without them.

They can't do their job without us as our.

So no matter what, radiology is always going to have this direct connection to our radiologists.

So whatever affects them will definitely affect us.

Yeah.

And vice versa, I tell you.

So we definitely see the need for RAs in our profession.

And may we support each other.

Other.

And you guys, thank you so much, Marceline, for being a guest and this was a great conversation and it won't be our last.

Well, thank you.

And that's a wrap for this episode of A Couple of Rad Tech's Podcasts.

We hope you enjoyed our discussion of the fascinating world of radiology and learned something new about the role we play in the healthcare industry.

If you have any questions or topics that you love for us to cover, feel free to reach out and let us know what they are.

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Leave us a review.

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And until next time, stay tuned for more insightful and informative episodes of A Couple of Rad Techs Podcast.