How Nutrition Can prevent Breast Cancer with Dr. Anjali Malik MD

Doctor Malik is a breast radiologist.

I have done radiology for about 20 years and I was so excited to be able to have Dr.

Malik on our program.

My husband and I ran a clubhouse room on Radiology and she came and shared with our audience so much information and I reached out to her and was like, I would love to have you in our program because for two years we have been doing this healthy living program and when you check out her Instagram, she is all about eating healthy and loving it as well.

Dr.

Malik, let me just tell you a little bit about her.

She is a breast imaging and intervention radiologist at Washington Radiology where she sees patients across seven locations in the DMV region, DC, MD, VA area.

She interprets multiple modalities of radiology imaging, detects and diagnoses breast and thyroid cancer, and works closely with physicians across multiple specialties to offer the best care for her patients.

She actively advocates for women and public health both in the Capitol Hill and within the community.

She serves on the Medical Advisory Committee For Bright, Inc.

Dr.

Malik studied at Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore, Maryland, where she earned her Bachelor of Arts in Public Health, Natural Studies.

She received her MD from University School of Medicine in New Orleans, Louisiana.

Welcome again to our program and thank you so much.

Much.

Thank you for having me.

Thank you.

So first I want to start out because a lot of people working in radiology, a lot of people wonder.

They'll come to me and say, well, my doctor's going to read my MRI or read my ct.

And people don't know that radiologists actually read those and interpret them.

So could you tell us a little bit about radiology so our audience is aware?

Sure.

Yes.

So I am a doctor just like the one that you might go see for your annual physical.

But my specialty is radiology.

And then I'm even subspecialized on top of that in that I am a breast imaging radiologist.

I've done a special fellowship for that.

So I detect and diagnose breast cancer.

So I read the mammograms.

So I don't perform the mammograms, but I interpret them.

And I'm the one that finds the small areas that may or may not be cancer.

I also perform and interpret ultrasounds.

So I do my own breast ultrasounds for their look at areas if a woman comes in with a lump or if we're concerned about something.

And then I do those biopsies.

So, you know, in the 21st century, a woman can feel something and I can put a very small Needle in, sample it and see if it is in fact cancer or not.

I do read MRIs as you referenced and you know, just am a part of the medical team that's working to take care of patients.

And I read a whole slew of other kinds of images, but, you know, people think that radiologists are stuck in the dark room.

And I work a lot on social media to try to combat that, that stereotype.

I actually see patients every single day.

And I have patients who have been coming to me year after year, you know, because they know that I'm someone who's an important part of their health care.

So.

Good question.

It is because I think it's so important that people understand the roles that different doctors have.

I mean, you wouldn't go to an eye doctor if you had heart problems and you do so much for women's health.

I actually personally have had my first lump at 24.

Breast cancer is very strong in my family and I actually recently just had to.

Something showed up on.

I've been getting mammograms since 24, breast ultrasound since the age of 24.

So eating plant based for me is really personal.

And eating more plants in my life is so personal because I had a cousin that passed away at 32 years old with three small children.

You know, I remember seeing that growing up.

So I wanted to make sure I armored my body up as best as I could.

Recently something showed up on my ultrasound and they sent me for an MRI of my breast, a more detailed scan for my breast, and it was nerve wracking.

And a lot of women on this program today are either going through chemo or radiation treatment.

They just finished it up.

Some are survivors for the last 20 years.

So, you know, hats off to all of these women and some men as well.

So I know you eat plant based or are you vegan?

You know, what motivated you to look at plants and nutrition for your life?

Sure.

So, well, starting from a young age, I was always one of those, you know, save the planet, save the animals, save the pandas type.

So I was donating all my pocket money to those types of organizations.

And so that was a natural transition into becoming a vegetarian.

And growing up in a South Asian household, there wasn't a lot of meat to begin with, but I was eating dairy and I didn't see how that at that point in my life, I didn't see how that was even a problem.

I knew veganism was the thing, but I didn't understand why people wouldn't eat dairy.

Both because I Didn't understand how it might harm animals and then how it might harm our own body.

So fast forward, in college I became lactose intolerant and those were the days where you could buy lactate and that was it.

There were no alternatives.

Soy milk was really barely a thing and it wasn't widely available.

And so I just stopped drinking milk and just eliminated all of those products.

And then, you know, again, fast forward into the, you know, in the last five to 10 years, there's been just so much more information about plant based diets and how they are better for our health and the environment.

And as someone who works to detect and diagnose cancer every day, I really wanted to take a holistic approach to my lifestyle.

Not just for my own health, but for me, planetary health is really important as well.

So we have chosen a plant based lifestyle because we know that it's better for our hearts, we know that it's better for just overall our health.

Again, as someone who detects cancer, I know that it can decrease my cancer risk.

And then we know that it's better for the climate change that we're all experiencing every day, which then goes back to have an effect on our health.

That's some of the reasons why.

Then of course, I can talk to you more in depth about what the actual reasons how a plant based diet could help impact our cancer risk.

That was my next question.

So go right ahead.

Absolutely.

So, you know, we know that eating fruits and vegetables, salads, it's good for our heart.

We know that there are a lot of nutrients, vitamins and minerals, and it's easy to see how that might be good, for example, for weight control or for our hearts or for our lungs.

But you don't always think like, how could that impact my breast?

So a couple of things.

When it comes to cancer, breast cancer, our top two risk factors for the development are being a female and aging.

And those are risk factors because females have estrogen and progesterone in our bodies and that estrogen and progesterone goes and affects our breast cells.

So if you've seen that Covid spike protein, you've seen that image of COVID it's a circle and then it has all these little kind of antennas off of it.

Well, think of the breast cell as the same.

You, you have the breast cell and you have all these little spikes on the outside and our estrogen in our body goes and attaches to it and it signals, it says, hey, what's going on in there?

I'm gonna try to make you change.

I'm gonna try to make you do the wrong thing.

I'm gonna try to make you grow in a way that you shouldn't.

Not all of the estrogen in our body does that, but some of it does.

And at some point, those cells that are normal, breast cells are gonna go from being normal, happy, go lucky to.

To doing the wrong thing.

It's kind of like if you've watched I Love Lucy and there's that episode of Lucy and Ethel, and they're making the chocolate at the factory at the assembly line, and everything's going fine, and they're doing.

Did she freeze or is that me?

Oh, no, she froze.

Okay, you're back.

She's back.

Okay, okay, Sorry.

So I was just talking about how the estrogen is what makes that assembly line go awry.

So our job is to try to keep that assembly line on track.

And fruits and vegetables, or plant based diets in general help do that a couple of ways.

So you've heard of antioxidants, right?

You hear of vitamin C, vitamin E, vitamin D, you hear of olive and vitamin A, beta carotene.

You hear them as being antioxidants.

And so they're antioxidants, which is oxygen.

And that oxidative stress that can happen inside our body can cause these mistakes, these DNA mistakes that go on to lead to cancer.

So, so what we want to do is have as much antioxidants in our body as possible.

And we're getting those from plants, we're getting those from fruits, from vegetables, from the colorful diet, eating the rainbow.

Another thing is fruits and vegetables and plant based diets have fiber.

So fiber isn't just good for keeping us regular.

When we think of fiber, we think colon cancer reduction, because, again, it's keeping us regular.

And that's great and very important.

And March is colorectal Cancer Awareness month.

So definitely something we always want to have on the top of our mind.

But it actually can reduce breast cancer risk as well, because that fiber blocks some of that, our body's own estrogen effects that do cause cancer.

So again, when it comes to breast cancer, it's all about trying to combat that estrogen than we have in our bodies, or any estrogen we're putting from outside.

So one other way, and this has been, you know, controversy for the past 10, 15, 20 years, is soy.

You hear soy.

And for the longest time, it was, no, we shouldn't eat soy because it's bad for us.

And in fact, you know, there was a suggestion that it could cause breast cancer.

That has been disproven.

So let's talk about why soy is good for us and why it's actually something that women should be eating.

So soy makes what's called a phytoestrogen.

Phytoestrogen just means plant estrogen.

So you would hear that and think, oh, my gosh, no, we just talked about how estrogen can increase our risk for cancer.

I don't want to do that.

But it's different.

So here's the breast cell, here are those little spikes I was talking about.

Here's our body's own estrogen, here's this estrogen from soy, that phytoestrogen.

Here's.

It's actually blocking this.

So it keeps our body's own estrogen away from the breast cells.

It blocks it and it actually helps protect us.

So soy is safe for women.

It can be eaten even by young women.

It is not shown to cause breast cancer nor to have any estrogen effects in any other parts of the body.

So it is actually helping protect us by blocking our body's own estrogenic effects.

So I've told you the fiber, I've told you the antioxidants, I've told you about how tofu is safe.

But also overall, one of the risk factors for the development of breast cancer is obesity.

And obesity is a risk factor because, well, the main reason that it's a risk factor is because our fat cells, which we call adipose tissue, can actually produce estrogen.

So, you know, we think of estrogen coming from the ovaries, and that is predominantly where it comes from.

But if there is a large amount of adipose tissue or fat tissue, it can be excreting estrogen as well.

And that's just more estrogen in the body that's impacting the breast cells and potentially causing again, that assembly line to get off course.

So, you know, a plant based diet can be part of a well balanced diet that can, you know, lead to overall decreased fat content of the body.

And then there are two other things that are not so much, yay, plants, but no meat.

And it's that processed meats have been linked to multiple kinds of solid tumors throughout the body, including breast cancer.

So those are things like those bologna, those packaged meats, those lunch meats, bacon, things like that.

So in that sense, it's saying, okay, so maybe a fresh meat would be okay and not a processed one.

I still think less meat is better, more plants is better.

And then high fat diets.

So your high trans Fat diets, which are again, coming from those animal fats.

So not the kind of fats that you're getting from an avocado, not the kind of fats you're getting from olive oil, or just those healthy fats that we associate with nuts and seeds and things like that.

But a high fat diet, again has been shown to be associated with increased risk for the development of multiple kinds of cancer.

And all of this is to say eating a plant based diet.

Eating healthy is a really important part of a healthy lifestyle.

But at the end of the day, like I said, our top two risks for the development of breast cancer are being female and aging.

So what I do like to impress upon my patients who might have been recently diagnosed with breast cancer is it's not your fault, it's no one's fault.

I see patients, in fact, who are the picture of health.

They eat plant based, they work out five, six times a day, they're healthy, they wear their sunscreen, they don't smoke, they don't drink alcohol, and they get cancer.

And it's because getting cancer is a side effect of being alive.

As long as our cells are alive and going down that assembly line of keeping us alive, there's a chance that one of them could get a little bit off course.

So everything that we're talking about when it comes to healthy living, we're just trying to decrease those chances.

We're not yet to the point where we can completely eliminate it.

But most importantly is that we don't want anyone to be blaming themselves.

I love that.

That is.

I remember we were in the room and you talked about.

I've tried to explain to some people about when you're talking about the receptors on the like, I just can't do it.

Explain it the way she did.

I think that really paints a good picture for us that how soy really works.

So someone has a question about the difference between tofu and soy.

That was their question.

Is there a difference or what is the difference?

So sure, that's a great question.

So.

And then actually that is a really brings up a good talking point.

So.

So soy is a plant, it's a bean.

And tofu is one of the whole soy products.

So there are about.

There are a few products that are whole soy and then there are a lot of these other processed soy.

So let's talk about the whole soy that we want to be eating, the processed soy that we want to be avoiding.

So tofu is fermented soybeans and it's that big solid white Block that you see, it can be used in stir fries.

It can be used to mimic a fresh cheese.

Like we like to make a tomato and basil salad with a little bit of balsamic vinegar and just big slices of big chunks of tofu.

Obviously, it's great in a lot of Asian stir fries and then edamame.

So for those of you who ever go to sushi restaurants or you see those pods, they look like pea pods, but they're not quite.

That is the soybean itself.

And again, it's a whole product and a good way to eat it.

Tempeh is another one.

T E M P E H Tempeh.

It's another whole soy product.

I can't remember how that's made, but it's going to be another one of those.

Oftentimes used as a meat alternative.

You'll see it.

It can be smoked or it can be marinated and you can get like a really nice meaty texture with it while eating plants.

And then things like soy sauce, which is a fermented sauce that of course, we use a lot in our Asian cuisines.

What we want to be avoiding is all these processed soy products, right?

You'll see them whether it's in some kind of processed veggie burger, processed, you know, breakfast sausage, processed meat alternative.

I think there's something that you can maybe use every now and then.

Like, I'm talking like once a month type thing if you're in a bind.

But they are full of sodium.

They are not whole foods, which is what we do want to be putting in our body.

And they have so many chemicals that they.

They're not meat, which is great, but they're not good for us.

So.

Yeah, I love that you said that because I tell people all the time, you know, I was told that all the time.

Soy causes breast cancer.

Stay away from soy.

That's what I heard all of my life.

And then when I grew up and I went to Japan, my husband and I have a lot of friends in Japan.

So we would go for like 15 days at a time.

And we're with, you know, with regular people.

We're not eating at the touristy places, so we're eating soy ice cream, soy this, soy that.

And usually when I eat soy in the States, but it's usually soy lecithin or some type of not a quality soy.

My fibrocystic breast disease.

They would swell immediately after I ate it.

So I always associated that with.

Yes, soy is bad.

That's what I've been told.

It is bad.

Look at what's happening to me.

But then I go to Japan and I'm eating it for like 15 days straight in every meal and nothing happens.

I actually feel great.

And then I come back and the same thing happens.

So it is, you know, definitely.

You know, that was an eye opener for me, that it must be something about the way the soy is processed and grown.

So.

So that is excellent information.

Thank you.

There's another question.

What are the contributors to thyroid cancer?

Does estrogen play a role in that?

Estrogen does not play a role in thyroid cancer, but it is multifactorial and not something I'm as well versed in when it comes to some of the risk factors.

But we know radiation is a risk factor, so that's why sometimes they might be offering you thyroid shields when you're having any kind of radiology study.

We know that it can be associated with other kinds of cancer.

If it's something that comes up in women or men who've had a lot of other familial types of cancer, it can be associated with some of the genetic mutations.

It's just a really common cancer.

Overall, I don't have as much information for you on that, and I'm sorry about that, but.

But can certainly try to answer some other questions.

That was very good.

Thank you so much.

Let's see what else is in the chat and if you have anything maybe that you've seen or you've heard or something you've experienced that could just be motivational or inspirational for everyone to see.

The power of just plants.

I mean, you said a bunch that really resonates with a lot of people.

I hear it in the.

But as a doctor, as a physician, you know, you've seen a lot with health and wealth and just prevention.

That's one thing that we really try to encourage here, is our point of doing it.

Charlene is a registered nurse.

She's retired after 40 years.

She.

She and I have known each other for years, and our passion is in helping people be educated on options, their choices.

There's not one quick fix to losing weight.

There's not one quick fix to curing anything.

There's no, you know, as long as we live here, we're just trying to just have good, quality life.

And that's one thing we know that food plays a big part in.

For me, my estrogen was through the roof when I hit about 40 something.

My estrogen just skyrocketed for some reason.

And one thing, my doctor, my obgyn, she traced it back to my quality of fiber was horrible.

So when you say that she explained to me that I was taking all kind of artificial stuff or fiber to add it to my body.

It wasn't helping it.

And once I added in more soluble and insoluble fibers, real plants to my diet back really conscious and intentional with that, my estrogen levels went down.

So did my blood sugar, my A1C went down.

She was explaining that the blood, the estrogen and the sugar can sit in the bloodstream and that fiber helps move it out.

Yeah, no, exactly.

And I mean, I think that's something too.

When you talk about fiber, when I mentioned fiber earlier and how it can impact.

It is so important to look at what the sources of your fiber are.

So carbs have had such a bad rap and in our or get such a bad rap or whatever in our society, we think carbs are bad.

We think carbs are related to we're going to gain weight and we're going to get bloated or whatever.

Carbs are not bad for you.

Carbohydrates are a macronutrient, just like protein, just like fat.

They are a part of most foods.

Yes, some are going to be low carb and yes, meat is low carb.

But it's not about counting carbs, it's about the quality of carbs.

So again, apples have carbs, you know, vegetables have carbs.

Those are good carbs.

Bad carbs are donuts, Bad carbs are, you know, white pasta, which can be enjoyed on occasion.

Right.

But that's not something that we want to be eating every day.

We want to be eating whole wheat, whole fibers, whole grains and fruits, vegetables, legumes, things like that.

And you know, if we're eating again, when it comes to plants and when it comes to eating a plant based diet, avoiding animal products is great, but we don't want to be substituting those with processed vegetable products either.

Right.

Like a potato chip is not the same as a potato.

Potato chips, not great for us.

Potatoes, they're not cooked in french fry form, can be healthy, they can be part of a healthy diet.

They actually do have good starches that are part of a healthy gut, part of a healthy plant based diet.

So, you know, when I think there are all these low carb and keto and this and that and the other and plant based, I mean, I heard someone say doctors are recommending plant based diet more.

That's great.

But what I want people to understand is this is not a trend, this is not a fad.

Diet, this is just a lifestyle, this is just eating whole, real foods.

And I do think, as you said, you'll notice a difference from the inside out, from the outside in, and you'll be making an overall impact on again, your own health and the planet's health, which I think is really important.

It turned into a lifestyle and I now, my husband, he's not, you know, he calls himself flexitarian, but at home he eats.

I don't cook meat in our home.

So, you know, he's noticed at 43, his belly is flat, he's not on any medicines.

He just went for his physical.

And our doctor is so funny.

He says, yeah, we know because we have the same doctor.

And the doctor goes, yeah, your wife won't let you eat any meat.

So I know your blood work is going to come back great.

You're eating all those plants over there.

No, and it's so true.

And you know, you can also think about like the quantity, the quality of food is important, but you can also eat a very large amount of plants and you know, still not even meet the like, level of calories that something like, you know, a piece of processed meat or you know, dairy, dairy is full of sugar.

You know, we've been taught that you need dairy, you need milk for your bones and you need milk for your.

And you don't.

Another thing that I thought this was, I think from the what the health.

I want to say it's from the what the health documentary that's on Netflix.

And one thing that helped win my husband over to the plant based lifestyle, because when I met him he was, you know, meat, potatoes, cheese, three times a day, is that, you know, we as humans think we need protein.

We think we need protein and we think those come from animal sources.

And we think, you know, like, you know, I want steak, I want beef, I want pork, I want whatever animals.

There are some animals who are predators and eat other animals.

But at some point when you go down the food chain, they're getting it from plants at some point.

The animal protein that we consume is built from plant protein.

And so why not just go directly to the source?

We know that animals who are out in the wild, you know, running all day long, are sustained by plants.

So there's no reason why the human body couldn't be.

So that was something that helped my husband realize that, you know, yeah, we really should just be focusing more on plants.

You can get complete proteins and the proteins that you need and just overall live a healthier lifestyle.

Amazing.

I love everyone.

I mean, if you see the chat, everybody's like, I love her.

She's so personable.

Really cares about people and the environment as well.

You know, that's a huge thing.

I grew up, you know, in a beautiful, lush area, Fort Lauderdale.

And when I would go visit my friends who live in Mexico, I didn't understand global warming until I went there.

And I see what looked, you know, the ocean was at a certain point when I was there years.

Then I come back a few years, and the ocean now is over someone's house.

You know, now we're seeing it in the weather and things like that and how farm and meat production, that does play a huge role in it.

So our goal today is to educate.

That is why we've been holding these events every Sunday and to give people options.

And we thank you, Dr.

Malik, so much for joining us and sharing what you know and being so willing to take time out of your Sunday to do that.

Absolutely.

Thank you for having me.

I love to talk about these kinds of things.

And, you know, you can find me on Instagram, Twitter, TikTok clubhouse, all of the things I'm at Anjuli Malikandi.